Discussion:
Sony Tosses Starwars Galaxy a loyal Customer over the Rail
(too old to reply)
paulsnx2
2004-08-11 19:03:22 UTC
Permalink
Basicly, the password quit working for us. The information they
required to reset the password included nearly everything we typed in
when we openned the account for my son. (Seems there may have been a
typo somewhere, so that information doesn't match). They also want
the origional credit card number, something I simply do not have
anymore. It doesn't appear on my bank statements (which was what I
expected). Or I used one of my wife's cards origionally. Just not
sure.

They will, however, accept current billing info to close the account.
Not to reset the password, mind you. Just close the account.

My son would rather just play the game. I am picking a fight over a
partial refund just on the principle of it all, not that I care that
much about the 6 or 7 bucks.

Here is our email (in response to their's, etc.)

============================================================================
To: mailto:***@station.sony.com

Earlier I had asked for clarification of section 5. I have not
received any reply. So here I go again:

Specifically, you blocked our access to your product (i.e. suddenly
our password, which we had not changed, just quit working.) We
attempted to get our password reset, but to do so required providing
information on how the account was set up, information we cannot
provide. The credit card number we used was changed (because it was
lost). We updated our billing information with the new card number.
We no longer have the old number (best I can tell).

You refused to accept our current billing information as sufficient to
reset the password. You did, however, accept our current billing
information as sufficient to close the account.

As a direct result of your actions (killing our password), and policy
(requiring old, outdated information for password reset), and in no
way due to any action on our part, Sony provided us only two options:

1) Close the account, or
2) Continue to Pay for an account we cannot use now or in the future.

We begged and begged for some means of resetting the password that did
not involve us providing the original credit card number (a number we
no longer have to give) so we could use your product.

As a result, I feel section 5, as you quote it, does not apply. The
underlying assumption of this section is that the customer will be
provided access to the product, and any choice to discontinue use
prior to the application anniversary is solely theirs. In our case,
it is the reverse. We wish to continue using the product, but the
decision to block our access is solely yours.

Paul Snow

-----Original Message-----
From: Accounts [mailto:***@station.sony.com]
Sent: Wednesday, July 28, 2004 1:39 PM
To: Paul
Subject: RE: (KMM9806021I7L0KM)

Hello,

Thank you for contacting the Sony Online Entertainment Customer
Service
department.


We appreciate your request for a refund, however we will not be able
to
process your request as all pre-paid fees are non-refundable as
explained in Section 5 of the End User License Agreement (copied
below)
as well as when you register with your billing information.

5. We describe our fees and billing procedures at www.everquest.com,
which are incorporated by reference. All fees are stated in U.S.
Dollars. All fees are prepaid and non-refundable. Upon your acceptance
of these terms, we will automatically charge your credit card the
Account fee plus any applicable taxes we are required to collect, and
you authorize us to do so. Thereafter, on the applicable anniversary,
we
will charge your credit card the then-current renewal rate plus any
applicable taxes we are required to collect, and you authorize us to
do
so. If we are unable to process your credit card at a renewal period,
your account may be immediately terminated.


Phone support for all SOE titles is available MON-FRI 9:00AM-1:30PM
PST
and 3:30pm-6:00pm PST, at (858)537-0898. Also, MON-FRI 9:00AM-5:30PM
GMT at 0845 6004263 or 01895 204440

Phone support for Star Wars Galaxies is available MON-FRI
9:00AM-1:30PM
PST and 3:30pm-6:00pm PST, at (858) 790-7827(STAR). Also, MON-FRI
9:00AM-5:30PM GMT at 0845 6004263 or 01895 204440

Also, please make sure to visit our Knowledge Base at
www.station.com/kb
for up to date information for all of our games.

Live chat is also available MON-FRI 9:00AM-6:00PM PST at
http://www.station.sony.com/en/services/help/help.jsp

Reminder: Please keep your account information up to date. Customers
often have a difficult time recovering lost accounts if they allow
their
registration information to become out of date. To update your
account's
information, please refer to the "Account" section of your log in
screen.

Regards,

Sony Online Entertainment

Original Message Follows:
------------------------
You should refund us for the partial month, since the only
reason we canceled this account is the fact that you refused
to reset the password.

In other words, you denied us use of what we have paid for.
If you do refuse to provide a partial refund, we will have
to investigate legal action on the part of all your customers
that have been mistreated in this fashion.

Paul

-----Original Message-----
From: Accounts [mailto:***@station.sony.com]
Sent: Friday, July 23, 2004 5:33 PM
To: ***@esnow.us
Subject: Re: (KMM9777361I7L0KM)


Hello Ben,


Your Star Wars Galaxy Subscription has now been cancelled at your
request.

You will not be billed on the next billing cycle.

We hope to see you again soon.

***NOTE: Our policy is that we do not give refunds for subscriptions
you
have purchased after your free month is over.

For future reference, your case number is 3759960.

Regards,

Mike L.
Sony Online Entertainment CSR

Original Message Excluded:
-------------------------
paulsnx2
2004-09-09 17:10:51 UTC
Permalink
Just when I figure I have all of this behind me, Sony
pulls another one.

My son's password suddenly just quits working early in
July.

Simple password reset, right? Wrong! They want all
kinds of information (including, but not limited to
the *origional* credit card number used to open the
account. I have numerous cards, and all of them have
cycled numbers since the account was openned, and it
is just stupid to ask for this to begin with!)

But they are willing to cancel the account. So that
is what we do. Or did we?

I look, and lo and behold, they have charged me $41
dollars!! I call, and they graciously offer me $28
back!! So I go back to my post on alt.games.video.sony
and show them the email they sent me claiming to have
canceled my account!!!!

So now they offer me a full refund. What is with these
guys anyway? They not only failed to cancel my account,
but left no record on their system that we had agreed
to do this!

Everyone should avoid Sony products of all types! This
isn't my first bad experience with them, only the latest.
They won't post drivers to their products on the Internet!
They don't have any concern for their customers!

Sony makes great products, but as a company they are evil!

Paul
nib
2004-09-09 18:59:47 UTC
Permalink
Odd. I reset my password with a click of the mouse. New pword was
emailed to me, I logged in and changed it and everything was fine.

nib
Post by paulsnx2
Just when I figure I have all of this behind me, Sony
pulls another one.
My son's password suddenly just quits working early in
July.
Simple password reset, right? Wrong! They want all
kinds of information (including, but not limited to
the *origional* credit card number used to open the
account. I have numerous cards, and all of them have
cycled numbers since the account was openned, and it
is just stupid to ask for this to begin with!)
But they are willing to cancel the account. So that
is what we do. Or did we?
I look, and lo and behold, they have charged me $41
dollars!! I call, and they graciously offer me $28
back!! So I go back to my post on alt.games.video.sony
and show them the email they sent me claiming to have
canceled my account!!!!
So now they offer me a full refund. What is with these
guys anyway? They not only failed to cancel my account,
but left no record on their system that we had agreed
to do this!
Everyone should avoid Sony products of all types! This
isn't my first bad experience with them, only the latest.
They won't post drivers to their products on the Internet!
They don't have any concern for their customers!
Sony makes great products, but as a company they are evil!
Paul
paulsnx2
2004-09-10 15:15:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by nib
Odd. I reset my password with a click of the mouse. New pword was
emailed to me, I logged in and changed it and everything was fine.
nib
Perhaps that was an option. But the Sony support did not seem to
know about it if it was. It seems I tried to do that, and for some
reason it rejected my attempts. It has been over a month, so I
really don't remember. Of course, one wonders why Sony couldn't
just reset the password and send the new password to the email
address of record for the account. But they can't, unless you
provide them with a host of sometimes annoying information.

Paul
NightSky 421
2004-09-09 22:42:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by paulsnx2
Sony makes great products, but as a company they are evil!
My experience with their unreliable consumer electronics says otherwise.
Clawhound
2004-09-10 13:26:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by NightSky 421
Post by paulsnx2
Sony makes great products, but as a company they are evil!
My experience with their unreliable consumer electronics says otherwise.
My Sonies have always been reliable. Then again, most everything I've
bought has been reliable from most known electronic makers.

CH
walter mitty
2004-09-10 16:41:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by NightSky 421
Post by paulsnx2
Sony makes great products, but as a company they are evil!
My experience with their unreliable consumer electronics says otherwise.
(guffaw)

Yeah, sure Sony make unreliable products .............

(incredulous sigh)
NightSky 421
2004-09-11 18:46:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by walter mitty
(guffaw)
Yeah, sure Sony make unreliable products .............
(incredulous sigh)
That was my experience.
walter mitty
2004-09-12 14:54:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by NightSky 421
That was my experience.
What Sony products have you bought that have failed?
M
2004-09-12 17:09:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by walter mitty
Post by NightSky 421
That was my experience.
What Sony products have you bought that have failed?
1996 Sony Discman.......intermittent fault where play/stop/ etc buttons
functions would be randomly allocated ( ie press FFWD and it would
stop.....).......got worse and worse.......so with 3 days left on 12month
guarantee I battered it to fuck (to make sure the fault was no longer
intermittent ) and took that pos back for a JVC player that is still
working........
Did have a PS when they were 1st released.......that was ok.........
So 50/50 so far...........
--
M

The difference between fiction and reality? Fiction has to make sense.
~Tom Clancy~
Howard
2004-09-14 06:54:46 UTC
Permalink
Sony Handicam - crapped out after less than one year.
Sony VHS player - crapped out after about 2 years.

They aren't the worst products out there, but I can get as much longevity
for much less money with another brand.
Post by walter mitty
Post by NightSky 421
That was my experience.
What Sony products have you bought that have failed?
paulsnx2
2004-09-16 18:41:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by Howard
Sony Handicam - crapped out after less than one year.
Sony VHS player - crapped out after about 2 years.
They aren't the worst products out there, but I can get as much longevity
for much less money with another brand.
Post by walter mitty
Post by NightSky 421
That was my experience.
What Sony products have you bought that have failed?
I have had Two Vaio Computer Systems, and Two Sony Video Cammeras.
With the first Video camera, the zoom button broke two weeks after
I got the thing. Getting it fixed took forever!

The first VAIO system worked okay until I tried what was supposed to
be a minor update to the OS (Windows 98). This trashed all the drivers.
I had to go back to the previous version, but then I found I had
misplaced my driver CD. No big deal, I'll go to the web and snag the
drivers right? WRONG! Sony doesn't support their products over the
web! I'm told I need to pay for a $50 cd to get my drivers!!!
After a long arguement with several Sony reps, they finally send me
the CD for free. Then I lost it. So I gotta hope I don't mess that
system up again.

Then this thing with Starwars Galaxy rolled in! All I need is a
password reset, and I am willing to continue paying $135 bucks a year
so my sony can play their online game! (what a rip, if you asked me...)

BUT THEY REFUSE!!! The ONLY thing they will do is cancel my account!!!

HOW STUPID IS THAT!!!

Paul
nib
2004-09-16 20:09:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by paulsnx2
The first VAIO system worked okay until I tried what was supposed to
be a minor update to the OS (Windows 98). This trashed all the drivers.
I had to go back to the previous version, but then I found I had
misplaced my driver CD. No big deal, I'll go to the web and snag the
drivers right? WRONG! Sony doesn't support their products over the
web! I'm told I need to pay for a $50 cd to get my drivers!!!
After a long arguement with several Sony reps, they finally send me
the CD for free. Then I lost it. So I gotta hope I don't mess that
system up again.
You gotta stop losing your shit. In this thread you've lost two CD's and
a password. And one of those CDs required you to scream and yell to get
it. You'd think you'd take better care of it. *shrug*

nib
paulsnx2
2004-09-17 21:53:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by nib
Post by paulsnx2
The first VAIO system worked okay until I tried what was supposed to
be a minor update to the OS (Windows 98). This trashed all the drivers.
I had to go back to the previous version, but then I found I had
misplaced my driver CD. No big deal, I'll go to the web and snag the
drivers right? WRONG! Sony doesn't support their products over the
web! I'm told I need to pay for a $50 cd to get my drivers!!!
After a long arguement with several Sony reps, they finally send me
the CD for free. Then I lost it. So I gotta hope I don't mess that
system up again.
You gotta stop losing your shit. In this thread you've lost two CD's and
a password. And one of those CDs required you to scream and yell to get
it. You'd think you'd take better care of it. *shrug*
nib
Actually, we didn't lose the password; Sony simply invalidated it.
In other words, my son goes to log on and it just doesn't work.

As for losing the 1st CD... I am not sure I ever had it. I bought
an "open box" system from a Computer City that was closing shop.
Even if I had lost it, every other electronics company
in the world posts better, more up to date drivers on their web
sites), and nobody else that I know wants 50 bucks for just the
drivers for their system. The drivers on that version of the
Vaio just stunk! And they were never updated, ever.

If Sony didn't muck around with all the various technologies
they put in their systems, I could use the drivers from the Video
card makers, the audio technology, etc. But no! Sony makes
little changes even to technologies developed from companies
with good support so that you just can't do anything.

Those little Sony "improvements" even prevent the user from
installing updates from Microsoft... This is what started me
down this whole path.

As for losing stuff... I have been through three moves with
four kids since I bought that system. In the last 10 years
I've moved from TX to CA to WA to WA to TX to WA to TX ...
I feel lucky not to have misplaced my Kids in all of this...

Paul
M
2004-09-17 22:36:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by paulsnx2
As for losing stuff... I have been through three moves with
four kids since I bought that system. In the last 10 years
I've moved from TX to CA to WA to WA to TX to WA to TX ...
I feel lucky not to have misplaced my Kids in all of this...
Ahhhhh........but had you misplaced your Kids during these moves you
would'nt be in this predicament..................
;-)
--
M

The difference between fiction and reality? Fiction has to make sense.
~Tom Clancy~
paulsnx2
2004-09-18 06:17:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by M
Post by paulsnx2
As for losing stuff... I have been through three moves with
four kids since I bought that system. In the last 10 years
I've moved from TX to CA to WA to WA to TX to WA to TX ...
I feel lucky not to have misplaced my Kids in all of this...
Ahhhhh........but had you misplaced your Kids during these moves you
would'nt be in this predicament..................
;-)
If I'd lost the kids, I think I'd have used the money to go
top of the line and toss the old Vaio out the window.

Paul
The Lindbergh Baby
2004-09-26 09:09:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by nib
Post by paulsnx2
The first VAIO system worked okay until I tried what was supposed to
be a minor update to the OS (Windows 98). This trashed all the drivers.
I had to go back to the previous version, but then I found I had
misplaced my driver CD. No big deal, I'll go to the web and snag the
drivers right? WRONG! Sony doesn't support their products over the
web! I'm told I need to pay for a $50 cd to get my drivers!!!
After a long arguement with several Sony reps, they finally send me
the CD for free. Then I lost it. So I gotta hope I don't mess that
system up again.
You gotta stop losing your shit.
You gotta start reading posts more carefully. He didn't "lose" it.
Apparently you have, though.



John
--
To reply, remove "die.spammers" from address


Von Herzen, moge es wieder zu Herzen gehen. --Beethoven
bp
2004-09-26 14:31:32 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, 26 Sep 2004 09:09:55 GMT, The Lindbergh Baby
Post by The Lindbergh Baby
Post by nib
Post by paulsnx2
The first VAIO system worked okay until I tried what was supposed to
be a minor update to the OS (Windows 98). This trashed all the drivers.
I had to go back to the previous version, but then I found I had
misplaced my driver CD. No big deal, I'll go to the web and snag the
drivers right? WRONG! Sony doesn't support their products over the
web! I'm told I need to pay for a $50 cd to get my drivers!!!
After a long arguement with several Sony reps, they finally send me
the CD for free. Then I lost it. So I gotta hope I don't mess that
system up again.
You gotta stop losing your shit.
You gotta start reading posts more carefully. He didn't "lose" it.
Apparently you have, though.
???
Lets see first he "misplaced " his driver CD then got a new one and
"lost it"

What did he miss or maybe I should say what did you miss?
Post by The Lindbergh Baby
John
nib
2004-09-26 17:55:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by The Lindbergh Baby
Post by nib
Post by paulsnx2
The first VAIO system worked okay until I tried what was supposed to
be a minor update to the OS (Windows 98). This trashed all the drivers.
I had to go back to the previous version, but then I found I had
misplaced my driver CD. No big deal, I'll go to the web and snag the
drivers right? WRONG! Sony doesn't support their products over the
web! I'm told I need to pay for a $50 cd to get my drivers!!!
After a long arguement with several Sony reps, they finally send me
the CD for free. Then I lost it. So I gotta hope I don't mess that
system up again.
You gotta stop losing your shit.
You gotta start reading posts more carefully. He didn't "lose" it.
Apparently you have, though.
John
This is barely worthy of a response but...

"but then I found I had misplaced my driver CD"

"they finally send me the CD for free. Then I lost it. "

Did I really need to bother with this?
--
nib
Rich G.
2004-09-26 22:35:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by nib
This is barely worthy of a response but...
"but then I found I had misplaced my driver CD"
Okies - this part means he lost it. :)
Post by nib
"they finally send me the CD for free. Then I lost it. "
I thought the "Then I lost it," part was something along the lines of he
lost his cool and started stamping around the house, ripping his shirt
off to reveal green skin just before hurling the couch through the
wall... ok, maybe not that dramatic, but you know what I mean hehehe.
Post by nib
Did I really need to bother with this?
Probly not, it's an old thread. :)
--
http://www.simplerich.com

Illegitimi non carborundum
nib
2004-09-27 01:01:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rich G.
Post by nib
"they finally send me the CD for free. Then I lost it. "
I thought the "Then I lost it," part was something along the lines of he
lost his cool and started stamping around the house, ripping his shirt
off to reveal green skin just before hurling the couch through the
wall... ok, maybe not that dramatic, but you know what I mean hehehe.
Heh, well, that could have been an interpretation had his next line not
been "So I gotta hope I don't mess that system up again." Makes it
pretty clear that he meant "lost" as in "misplaced".
Post by Rich G.
Post by nib
Did I really need to bother with this?
Probly not, it's an old thread. :)
Yeah, you're right. Just bored enough to spend my time posting I guess. :D
--
nib
paulsnx2
2004-09-29 09:39:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by nib
Post by Rich G.
Post by nib
"they finally send me the CD for free. Then I lost it. "
I thought the "Then I lost it," part was something along the lines of he
lost his cool and started stamping around the house, ripping his shirt
off to reveal green skin just before hurling the couch through the
wall... ok, maybe not that dramatic, but you know what I mean hehehe.
Heh, well, that could have been an interpretation had his next line not
been "So I gotta hope I don't mess that system up again." Makes it
pretty clear that he meant "lost" as in "misplaced".
Post by Rich G.
Post by nib
Did I really need to bother with this?
Probly not, it's an old thread. :)
Yeah, you're right. Just bored enough to spend my time posting I guess. :D
What difference does it make? I download drivers all the time.
And as long as I don't buy systems from Sony, I update the OS on
systems all the time. In fact, for every other company in the
world, the Internet provided drivers are always the best bet. Not
with Sony. With them, no updates, no compatiblity, no support.

You want to judge me by how well I keep up with CDs, its your
choice. It is also your choice to choose a company that is going
to charge you 50 bucks for losing a 10 cent piece of plastic when
nobody else in the industry does. And a company producing
a void of updates to the drivers, little compatibility with OS upgrades,
no compatiblity with newer drivers from those manufacturers that
build various components of the computer system.

I prefer companies that update their drivers, don't needlessly
fiddle with the components they include in the system, provides
compatibility with OS upgrades, etc.

As far as the origional complaint, we didn't lose anything. The
password just quit working for no reason whatsoever. And they
Sony Entertainment refused to reset it.

Paul
The Lindbergh Baby
2004-09-26 09:08:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by walter mitty
Post by NightSky 421
That was my experience.
What Sony products have you bought that have failed?
DVD player
CD player
Portable CD player
2nd portable CD player
That's when I wised up.

Ironically, my early 1980s stereo equipment from them still works
incredibly well, and has better sound quality than anything they're
making today. When Morita was still alive it was an excellent company.
Now that he's dead it's just a logo. Many people in the professional
electronics biz will tell you that.



John
--
To reply, remove "die.spammers" from address


Von Herzen, moge es wieder zu Herzen gehen. --Beethoven
The Lindbergh Baby
2004-09-26 09:09:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by walter mitty
Post by NightSky 421
That was my experience.
What Sony products have you bought that have failed?
Oh yeah, forgot about the VAIO laptop (not mine, my wife's).



John
--
To reply, remove "die.spammers" from address


Von Herzen, moge es wieder zu Herzen gehen. --Beethoven
Gary Colligan
2004-09-30 13:07:01 UTC
Permalink
--
"Please take the dot [.] out of the address for replies"
Post by walter mitty
Post by NightSky 421
That was my experience.
What Sony products have you bought that have failed?
What Sony products have you bought that have worked?
Andrew
2004-09-30 13:17:14 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 30 Sep 2004 23:07:01 +1000, "Gary Colligan"
Post by Gary Colligan
--
"Please take the dot [.] out of the address for replies"
<message bizarrely following the .sig snipped>

I know you are Australian, but please visit
http://home.in.tum.de/~jain/software/oe-quotefix/ to sort out your
upside down posting problems.
--
Andrew, contact via interpleb.blogspot.com
Help make Usenet a better place: English is read downwards,
please don't top post. Trim replies to quote only relevant text.
Check groups.google.com before asking an obvious question.
Rich G.
2004-09-30 19:19:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by Andrew
I know you are Australian, but please visit
http://home.in.tum.de/~jain/software/oe-quotefix/ to sort out your
upside down posting problems.
lol
--
http://www.simplerich.com

Illegitimi non carborundum
walter mitty
2004-09-30 13:36:04 UTC
Permalink
Gary Colligan wrote:

see what happens if you put your .sig at the top(!?!?!?!) of your post?

Anyway to answer your somewhat ridiculous question : everything from
Sony that I have bought has functioned flawlessly. including but not
limited to:

PS2, Laptop, DVD Player, Home Cinema receiver, Digital Camera, CD Player

Oh I could go on.

Why? Are you going to convince us that "all sony stuff is shit"? You
need to meet Cheddar.
paulsnx2
2004-10-07 15:15:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by walter mitty
Anyway to answer your somewhat ridiculous question : everything from
Sony that I have bought has functioned flawlessly. including but not
PS2, Laptop, DVD Player, Home Cinema receiver, Digital Camera, CD Player
Oh I could go on.
Why? Are you going to convince us that "all sony stuff is shit"? You
need to meet Cheddar.
I have quite a bit of Sony equipment and products myself. I agree
that they are, out of the box, very reliable. That said, if I
am traveling with a sony camera and decide I want to hook it up
to my brother's computer forget it. If I need a Sony driver I can't
download it from Sony. Everyone else in the world, but not Sony.

And this thing with Starwars Galaxy is completely without parallel
in any other application on the Web.

Paul
paulsnx2
2004-09-10 15:24:31 UTC
Permalink
Here is the latest email thread! Sony continues to
drag its feet on refunding me the money it charged
*after* I had canceled the account!!! Not to mention
a complete lack of concern for how I was treated!

I have sent them copies of the old email I posted to
alt.games.video.sony.

======================================================
Email from Sony:
======================================================



Hello,

Thank you for contacting the Sony Online Entertainment Customer
Service
department.

Please forward the original e-mail you recieved for cancelling the
account, so we may look into this for you.



Phone support for all SOE titles is available MON-FRI 9:00AM-1:30PM
PST
and 3:30pm-6:00pm PST, at (858)537-0898. Also, MON-FRI 9:00AM-5:30PM
GMT at 0845 6004263 or 01895 204440

Phone support for Star Wars Galaxies is available MON-FRI
9:00AM-1:30PM
PST and 3:30pm-6:00pm PST, at (858) 790-7827(STAR). Also, MON-FRI
9:00AM-5:30PM GMT at 0845 6004263 or 01895 204440

Also, please make sure to visit our Knowledge Base at
www.station.com/kb for up to date information for all of our games.

Live chat is also available MON-FRI 9:00AM-6:00PM PST at
http://www.station.sony.com/en/services/help/help.jsp

Reminder: Please keep your account information up to date. Customers
often have a difficult time recovering lost accounts if they allow
their registration information to become out of date. To update your
account's information, please refer to the "Account" section of your
log in
screen.

Regards,

Mark S.
Sony Online Entertainment CSR

If you reply to this email, please be sure to include the original
body
text so the thread of our correspondence is contained in every
message.
Thank you.



Message received date: Sep 9, 2004
Message received time: 07:58:25 PM
From: Paul Snow ***@mtbj.com>
Message Tracking ID#: KMM10031998I7L0KM

Original Message Follows:
------------------------
As I feared. I had a conversation earlier today with you folks and I
thought I got a resolution on this issue. If you would care to
research this AGAIN, then here is what you need to do:

1) Go to Google Groups
2) Search for paulsnx2
3) Sort by date

The second entry will be the posted account of my first attempt to
have the account canceled in July. It also includes your email to me
that you had canceled the account. But you really didn't do it until
I called back today. But (I think) I am getting credit for having
already canceled the account, since I have PROOF that I did, in fact,
cancel the account.

I would like it in writing that you are going to refund the full
$41 dollars in change that you charged against my card without any
authorization from me to do so.

Paul Snow

-----Original Message-----
From: Accounts [mailto:***@station.sony.com]
Sent: Thursday, September 09, 2004 5:28 PM
To: Paul Snow
Subject: RE: (KMM10030359I7L0KM)


Greetings:

Thank you for contacting the Sony Online Entertainment Customer
Service
department.

Our record shows that your account was cancel on September 9, 2004.


Phone support for all SOE titles is available MON-FRI 9:00AM-1:30PM
PST
and 3:30pm-6:00pm PST, at (858)537-0898. Also, MON-FRI 9:00AM-5:30PM
GMT at 0845 6004263 or 01895 204440

Phone support for Star Wars Galaxies is available MON-FRI
9:00AM-1:30PM
PST and 3:30pm-6:00pm PST, at (858) 790-7827(STAR). Also, MON-FRI
9:00AM-5:30PM GMT at 0845 6004263 or 01895 204440

Also, please make sure to visit our Knowledge Base at
www.station.com/kb for up to date information for all of our games.

Live chat is also available MON-FRI 9:00AM-6:00PM PST at
http://www.station.sony.com/en/services/help/help.jsp

Reminder: Please keep your account information up to date. Customers
often have a difficult time recovering lost accounts if they allow
their registration information to become out of date. To update your
account's information, please refer to the "Account" section of your
log in
screen.

Regards,

Sohol U
Sony Online Entertainment CSR

If you reply to this email, please be sure to include the original
body
text so the thread of our correspondence is contained in every
message.
Thank you.



Message received date: Sep 9, 2004
Message received time: 02:17:22 PM
From: Paul Snow ***@mtbj.com>
Message Tracking ID#: KMM10030359I7L0KM

Original Message Follows:
------------------------
You did not really read my email. I asked for two things:

1) Verification that you are, in fact, going to refund
what your representative already agrees was a unauthorized
charge on my credit card for an account that was supposed
to have been closed in July.

2) A request for a refund for July, since we were cut off
from access to the game by no action of our own, but
from Sony's invalidation of our password, and a refusal to
reset the password without information we could not reasonably
provide.

You are responding to 2), but you completely ignored 1). We could
still argue about 2, because Sony has taken this action to deny us the
access we were quite willing and quite eagerly paid for and wanted.

None the less, we have been promised a refund of the unauthorized
charge against our credit card, and I'd really like to have that in
writing.

As for point 2), you really do owe us the money you stole by denying
us access to the game we paid for, and clearly wished to continue to
play. Thus you didn't lose us as a customer by any desire of ours,
rather you
took us by the neck and tossed us out the door on our ear.

Section 5 below does not mention the fact that Sony may choose to
randomly invalidate passwords, and refuse to reset them, and in such
case Sony will not refund any fees paid to date, but will stand by
Sony's policy of no refunds under any circumstances whatsoever, unless
someone sues Sony and pries the money from Sony's cold dead fingers.

Paul Snow

Suggested motto:

Sony: We care less about you than the Cable company does.

-----Original Message-----
From: Accounts [mailto:***@station.sony.com]
Sent: Thursday, September 09, 2004 2:40 PM
To: Paul Snow
Subject: RE: (KMM10029677I7L0KM)


Hello Paul,

We appreciate your request for a refund, however we will not be able
to
process your request as all pre-paid fees are non-refundable as
explained in Section 5 of the End User License Agreement (copied
below)
as well as when you register with your billing information.

5. We describe our fees for playing the Game and billing procedures
related to the Account on the web at a hotlink located
http://www.starwarsgalaxies.com (the Game Site). The fees for the Game
and billing procedures set forth on the Game Site are incorporated
herein by reference and are subject to change at any time. All fees
are
stated in U.S. dollars unless otherwise specified. All fees are
prepaid
and non-refundable. Upon your acceptance of these terms, we have the
right to automatically charge your credit card the Account fee plus
any
applicable taxes we are required to collect, and you authorize us to
do
so. Thereafter, each time your Account comes up for renewal, we have
the right to automatically charge your credit card the then-current
renewal
fee plus any applicable taxes we are required to collect, and you
authorize us to do so. If we are unable to process your credit card at
a renewal period, your Account may be immediately terminated. In the
event that we choose to make a paid game card available, the
procedures
associated with such game card will be set forth on the web at a
hotlink located at the Game Site. We are under no obligation to make a
game card available for the Game. You may terminate your Account at
any time
through the Account registration process. If you terminate your
Account
during your initial free period, your account will be closed at the
end
of the free period and you will not be billed. If you terminate your
Account during any subscription cycle, your Account will be closed at
the end of the then-current cycle and you will not be billed again
unless you affirmatively reopen the Account. We do not give full or
partial refunds for subscription periods that you have purchased.

If your request was for a refund of the purchase price you will have
to
contact the retailer where you purchased the product, and see what
their policy is on returning merchandise.


Regards,
Enrique C.
Sony Online Entertainment CSR

If you reply to this email, please be sure to include the original
body
text so the thread of our correspondence is contained in every
message.
Thank you.

Message received date: Sep 9, 2004
Message received time: 10:43:18 AM
From: Paul Snow ***@mtbj.com>
Message Tracking ID#: KMM10029677I7L0KM

Original Message Follows:
------------------------
You do not indicate that you are going to refund the 41 dollars taken
from my account after the last time Sony claimed to have cancelled my
account.

And as I stated before, the *only* reason we are canceling the account
is because Sony invalidated our password, and Sony refused to reset
the password. Since our inability to use the system was totally in
Sony's control, and the only reason we cancelled the account was
because Sony provided no means of using the account ever again, not
then or any time in the future, I would expect
a refund would be in order for July. Besides, you owe me something
for all the effort I have had to go through just to cancel my
account.

To be honest, I have to wonder how wide spread Sony's failures
to accurately cancel accounts goes. I find it hard to believe
I am the only one that has these problems.

My cable company provides refunds if the outage is
not my fault. Are you really going to take the position that
you are not as customer sensitive as the cable company?

How about a new by line:

Sony: We care less about you than the Cable company does.

Paul

BTW: All communications will be posted to the Internet. My general
rule is when a company refuses to be sensible about rather
small amounts owed me, I try and make sure it costs them at
least 100x in lost business.


-----Original Message-----
From: Accounts [mailto:***@station.sony.com]
Sent: Thursday, September 09, 2004 11:55 AM
To: paul
Subject: Re: (KMM10028619I7L0KM)



Your Star Wars Galaxy Subscription has now been cancelled at your
request.

You will not be billed on the next billing cycle.

We hope to see you again soon.

***NOTE: Our policy is that we do not give refunds for subscriptions
you have purchased after your free month is over.

For future reference, your case number is .

Original Message Follows:
------------------------
Ringo
2004-09-10 16:18:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by paulsnx2
Just when I figure I have all of this behind me, Sony
pulls another one.
My son's password suddenly just quits working early in
July.
Simple password reset, right? Wrong! They want all
kinds of information (including, but not limited to
the *origional* credit card number used to open the
account. I have numerous cards, and all of them have
cycled numbers since the account was openned, and it
is just stupid to ask for this to begin with!)
But they are willing to cancel the account. So that
is what we do. Or did we?
I look, and lo and behold, they have charged me $41
dollars!! I call, and they graciously offer me $28
back!! So I go back to my post on alt.games.video.sony
and show them the email they sent me claiming to have
canceled my account!!!!
So now they offer me a full refund. What is with these
guys anyway? They not only failed to cancel my account,
but left no record on their system that we had agreed
to do this!
Everyone should avoid Sony products of all types! This
isn't my first bad experience with them, only the latest.
They won't post drivers to their products on the Internet!
They don't have any concern for their customers!
Sony makes great products, but as a company they are evil!
Paul
Do not confuse Sony Electronics with Sony Online Entertainment
(formerly Verant) very different animals even though under the same
corp. SoE as a company from a consumers point of view is simply horrid
customer service wise. Wont even get into the quality issue on the
product itself for SWG. Sony electronics on the other hand makes a
good product with a good reputation, a policy SoE has chosen to ignore
in its online games. Suggest Anarchy Online by FunCom if you like
scifi settings. The customer service, while not perfect, is vastly
better than SoE and the gameplay is very good imho.
jsyno
2004-09-11 05:02:53 UTC
Permalink
Have you ever bought the sony MS Walkman MP3 player!! The first time I
connected it to my computer through usb it crashed it. Sony sucks at
anything dealing with computers.
Post by Ringo
Post by paulsnx2
Just when I figure I have all of this behind me, Sony
pulls another one.
My son's password suddenly just quits working early in
July.
Simple password reset, right? Wrong! They want all
kinds of information (including, but not limited to
the *origional* credit card number used to open the
account. I have numerous cards, and all of them have
cycled numbers since the account was openned, and it
is just stupid to ask for this to begin with!)
But they are willing to cancel the account. So that
is what we do. Or did we?
I look, and lo and behold, they have charged me $41
dollars!! I call, and they graciously offer me $28
back!! So I go back to my post on alt.games.video.sony
and show them the email they sent me claiming to have
canceled my account!!!!
So now they offer me a full refund. What is with these
guys anyway? They not only failed to cancel my account,
but left no record on their system that we had agreed
to do this!
Everyone should avoid Sony products of all types! This
isn't my first bad experience with them, only the latest.
They won't post drivers to their products on the Internet!
They don't have any concern for their customers!
Sony makes great products, but as a company they are evil!
Paul
Do not confuse Sony Electronics with Sony Online Entertainment
(formerly Verant) very different animals even though under the same
corp. SoE as a company from a consumers point of view is simply horrid
customer service wise. Wont even get into the quality issue on the
product itself for SWG. Sony electronics on the other hand makes a
good product with a good reputation, a policy SoE has chosen to ignore
in its online games. Suggest Anarchy Online by FunCom if you like
scifi settings. The customer service, while not perfect, is vastly
better than SoE and the gameplay is very good imho.
John Lewis
2004-09-11 17:20:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by jsyno
Have you ever bought the sony MS Walkman MP3 player!! The first time I
connected it to my computer through usb it crashed it. Sony sucks at
anything dealing with computers.
Seems strongly dependent on the particular Sony business division.
Sony professional video products are excellent and the consumer
ones don't seem to be too bad either, with regard to both quality
and reliability. I own several pro and consumer video cameras and
related accessories.

However, Sony computer peripherals don't seem to be too good
in the reliability department. 2 failed CD-rom drives for me. I now
avoid anything Sony in this area.

John Lewis
Mike
2004-10-06 17:44:24 UTC
Permalink
Hmm I wonder if you bought a used copy off of EBAY and now somehow SOE
has figured out that the initial billing card is in a different name
than yours.

Wouldnt it be a kick in the head to buy a JEDI for little JOHNNY and
then have it ripped away in violation of the EULA. Course since the
password isnt saved you might have just forgotten the password.

I feel your pain (well not really)

Mike (Playing on Corbantis watching people spend duped credits like
mad for Adhesives)
paulsnx2
2004-10-07 15:23:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mike
Hmm I wonder if you bought a used copy off of EBAY and now somehow SOE
has figured out that the initial billing card is in a different name
than yours.
Wouldnt it be a kick in the head to buy a JEDI for little JOHNNY and
then have it ripped away in violation of the EULA. Course since the
password isnt saved you might have just forgotten the password.
I feel your pain (well not really)
Mike (Playing on Corbantis watching people spend duped credits like
mad for Adhesives)
Nope. In fact, I ended up buying *two* retail copies from Best Buy
I was traveling, and the first CD's got damaged somehow as my son
repeatedly installed it on the other two computer systems. He couldn't
get it to work, as it has certain video card requirements, and the
other two systems had older hardware.

He finally got my laptop, and it worked there. So for over a year, he
has grabbed my laptop to play this game.

Then all of the sudden, this password failure. Same password he's
used for the year. I know he didn't forget the password.

Paul

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